Comments on: I am not Anti-War, I am Pro-Peace http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/08/17/i-am-not-anti-war-i-am-pro-peace/ for friends of University Bible Fellowship Wed, 21 Oct 2015 04:34:18 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=4.3.1 By: BrianK http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/08/17/i-am-not-anti-war-i-am-pro-peace/#comment-19051 Thu, 20 Aug 2015 19:10:30 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=9432#comment-19051 Well, mess with a Karcher and now you’re messin’…

I really believe this is God’s work, to usher in a wind of change.

But we need many more to go beyond belief.

After waking up, I found myself in silent lucidity, with a second chance at life!

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By: MJ Peace http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/08/17/i-am-not-anti-war-i-am-pro-peace/#comment-19049 Thu, 20 Aug 2015 18:21:23 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=9432#comment-19049 “It has literally little or anything to do with Christ or Christianity…but everything to do with an untouchable pride and ego that has literally gone on unchecked for decades…and you touched it simply by being HOT!”

I second that notion. It took a tremendous amount of chutzpah, guts, and emotional resiliency to say what you said. You were touching upon a pride/ego that has been festering for decades, as Ben said. I wouldn’t touch that with a 10-foot pole. Once you go near it, you get burned. It’s the elephant in the room that no one is allowed to notice; it’s the ostrich with it’s head in the ground pretending there’s no issue; it’s the man behind the curtain in the wizard of Oz; it’s the emperor’s new clothes that everyone is too scared to point out is non-existent, except for the little boy with the chutzpah. Kudos to you.

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By: Ben Toh http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/08/17/i-am-not-anti-war-i-am-pro-peace/#comment-19045 Wed, 19 Aug 2015 23:42:59 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=9432#comment-19045 “I decided to just share my feelings with no filter. Within 2 hours I got an angry phone call and was told I was spiritually dead. Things went downhill from there because I continued to be more and more honest.” – See more at: http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/08/17/i-am-not-anti-war-i-am-pro-peace/#comment-19043

Brian, I think it is the first time I read your 2011 conference report that “started it all.” It is actually refreshing to read what you wrote, because it was HOT: http://www.priestlynation.com/2011-easter-conference-report/

It is sad that likely few who are currently in UBF are able to share freely and honestly as you did…and survive, even to this day.

The reason you were basically “ousted” since that report is sadly so obvious. It has literally little or anything to do with Christ or Christianity…but everything to do with an untouchable pride and ego that has literally gone on unchecked for decades…and you touched it simply by being HOT!

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By: BrianK http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/08/17/i-am-not-anti-war-i-am-pro-peace/#comment-19044 Wed, 19 Aug 2015 20:14:14 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=9432#comment-19044 Oh and looking back my big “spiritual problem” was that I said I learned from the Holy Spirit and not from the ubf lectures… try saying THAT in your testimony!

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By: BrianK http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/08/17/i-am-not-anti-war-i-am-pro-peace/#comment-19043 Wed, 19 Aug 2015 20:10:59 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=9432#comment-19043 Thanks MJ. Your next article will be published this week. We really appreciate these thought-provoking and challenging thoughts!

That conference report is here: 2011 Easter conference report

I decided to just share my feelings with no filter. Within 2 hours I got an angry phone call and was told I was spiritually dead. Things went downhill from there because I continued to be more and more honest. The explosion then happened because I was honest and public about my confession of sin. This did not go over well…

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By: MJ Peace http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/08/17/i-am-not-anti-war-i-am-pro-peace/#comment-19042 Wed, 19 Aug 2015 16:57:27 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=9432#comment-19042 “Or the ubf that pushed me out for sharing one honest conference report”

Wow, Bk reading your comment makes me indignant, not at you, but at UBF or PH or whoever did what they did to you. Reading things like this (and speaking from my own experience) I’ve made the observation that Christians can be the worst people of all. This is because they have the word of God which often makes them think that they can take the place of God. For example, some Christian Pastor once said, “If God doesn’t punish America, He’ll have to apologize to Sodom and Gomorrah.” (I’m not sure what the context was, but I think it was because of the legalization of same sex marriage.) But why is there this vehemence towards the LGBT community? Why is there so much vehemence from Christian to Christian? Why do we treat our neighbors like dirt and gossip and slander if they dabble in pre marital sex, or curse or read certain books and write certain blogs. I’m really tired of the inconsistency and the facade of love. Anyways, I write more about it in my to-be-published article “They want Christ, not Christians.” Once again thank you for your honesty, openness and transparency. We can always rely on you to keep it real. It’s so refreshing and I greatly appreciate it!

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By: Maria Peace http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/08/17/i-am-not-anti-war-i-am-pro-peace/#comment-19041 Tue, 18 Aug 2015 23:51:23 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=9432#comment-19041 It’s only natural that you are pro-peace MJ when your last name is Peace. I wanted to be anti-Russia with the war being waged in Ukraine but I realized that they too are suffering in this hellish conflict. The prefix anti or non are passive or negative prefixes, while pro is something active and positive. It remains me of the golden rule of Jesus and Confucius. Jesus’ is “do to others what you would have them do to you” while Confucius’ “what you do not wish for yourself, do not do to others.” I can hate and ignore those who hurt me or the people I love, or I can love my enemies. Last weekend with fasting and prayers, we sent 2 of our sisters to the East of Ukraine to help one village. Many of those living in the East are pro-Russia and anti-Ukraine. Our sisters are pro-Ukraine. But when they went there they were pro-Jesus. When they went with this mindset they could serve the people there even though they didn’t agree politically. Jesus truly is the one who breaks all barriers among people.

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By: Ben Toh http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/08/17/i-am-not-anti-war-i-am-pro-peace/#comment-19040 Tue, 18 Aug 2015 23:03:10 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=9432#comment-19040 “Why is Dr. Ben still in UBF if he complains about it on ubfriends?” – See more at: http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/08/17/i-am-not-anti-war-i-am-pro-peace/#comment-19038

Such interesting questions and statements often cause me to smile and chuckle to myself.

I’ve never thought that I “complain about UBF.” That is what others say that I do: complain. But my own thought is that I am simply addressing what I believe is absolutely crucial, but which for the most part has been ignored, dismissed, swept under the carpet, suppressed, minimized, justified, rationalized, etc. As long as this is ongoing, I shall continue to speak the truth as best I can, and hopefully do so in a “kind and gentle” way, if that is at all possible.

So perhaps I could say that I am NOT and have never been anti-UBF but PRO-HONESTY (or pro-HOT).

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By: BrianK http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/08/17/i-am-not-anti-war-i-am-pro-peace/#comment-19038 Tue, 18 Aug 2015 17:28:57 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=9432#comment-19038 Thanks MJ, for this perspective. I appreciate the sentiment. I think this demonstrates that you have a rather healthy view of your life and the ministry.

You question is valid, and I need to answer similar questions: ““Why is Dr. Ben still in UBF if he complains about it on ubfriends?” – See more at: http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/08/17/i-am-not-anti-war-i-am-pro-peace/#sthash.BriGWtwl.dpuf

Why should I expect people to believe me? Should they believe the BrianK who was Mr. ubf? Or the BrianK who constantly bashes ubf?

The same can be asked of ubf. Which ubf do I believe? The ubf that claims to be a mainline church with roots in Presbyterianism? Or the ubf that pushed me out for sharing one honest conference report?

These are the things I delve into in my new book. As I examine the 7 stages of identity transformation, one stage is what I call “Discovering a New Mirror”.

You see, when you break free from UBFism in a healthy way, as you mostly have MJ, you can say “I am pro-Church, not anti-ubf”. But for those of us leaders who went through the shunning process and experienced a painful boot out the door of a ministry we loved and NEVER intended to leave, we cannot say that. It may take decades for me to arrive at such a place.

After the mirror of UBFism shatters, and the mask of the happy shepherd falls off, we former leaders find that there is another mirror– the anti-ubf mirror. It is common for us former members to use all our ubf training against ubf. It is a coping mechanism. We were trained to be sneaky and harsh while keeping up appearances, and so we lash out in the same way we were treated as we were escorted out of the ministry and pushed to either leave or submit.

So for me, I am still mostly anti-ubf. I know I need to continue recovering and find the redemption that is possible, but for now I remain outside the visible Church and strongly anti-ubf. I really do want to see the ministry collapse. I really do want people to leave. That is where I am at and may always be.

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