Comments on: Have the Conversation on LGBTQIA – Part 3 http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/07/18/have-the-conversation-on-lgbtqia-part-3/ for friends of University Bible Fellowship Wed, 21 Oct 2015 04:34:18 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=4.3.1 By: BrianK http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/07/18/have-the-conversation-on-lgbtqia-part-3/#comment-19183 Sat, 29 Aug 2015 19:38:59 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=9370#comment-19183 “I have a harder time believing that he would ever have married though. – See more at: http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/07/18/have-the-conversation-on-lgbtqia-part-3/#sthash.EgRbdj72.dpuf

Odd idea… I don’t think Jesus would have gotten married either.

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By: TomKent http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/07/18/have-the-conversation-on-lgbtqia-part-3/#comment-19170 Sat, 29 Aug 2015 18:26:39 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=9370#comment-19170 Id like to think that Jesus would invite “those” people to his wedding. He was after all, said to be a friend to the outcast. I have a harder time believing that he would ever have married though.

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By: BrianK http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/07/18/have-the-conversation-on-lgbtqia-part-3/#comment-18858 Tue, 21 Jul 2015 02:13:31 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=9370#comment-18858 That Lifezette article is a great read, Joe.

Two points stand out to me from there: “Often, for instance, we read that Jesus did not say much about given issues, usually involving sexual behavior, so therefore he did not regard those matters particularly grave or sinful. Recently, that argument is taken to mean that Jesus did not condemn homosexuality, and that Christian prohibitions on that point stemmed from a twisted and repressive Paul of Tarsus.”

I agree that the “Jesus was silent” argument is not helpful and rather weak. Jesus was silent on many things. Furthermore, I hesitate to claim to know Jesus’ mind. I don’t know what Jesus would do. I do raise questions to ponder though, such as: What if Jesus did invite “those” people to His wedding?

This point is highly intriguing: “Did the living Jesus recorded in the New Testament believe that his mission extended to gentiles? None of the four canonical Gospels explicitly declare that he recognized any duty beyond the frontiers of Judaism, which is remarkable when we recall that all four were written at a time when the Jesus movement had opened its doors to non-Jews.”

I’ve wondered similar things. As a Gentile myself, where are the demands that I submit to the Jewish regulations? Due to being in the Gentile world and due to Jesus’ silence on many things, isn’t is the churches responsibility to figure these things out? To navigate the sexual landscape of our time requires that we allow the conversations and viewpoints to be openly addressed and debated.

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By: Joe Schafer http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/07/18/have-the-conversation-on-lgbtqia-part-3/#comment-18856 Mon, 20 Jul 2015 23:52:57 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=9370#comment-18856 “I see Jesus doing this kind of thing all the time in Scripture. He didn’t shatter His ideas about God onto people, but led people closer into God from wherever they were. – See more at: http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/07/18/have-the-conversation-on-lgbtqia-part-3/#comment-18855

I think Brian is right. In our zeal to uphold the divinity of Jesus, Christians have tended to ignore his humanity. Jesus was a first century Jew. He lived within a specific cultural context, and his teachings (what he said, and what he didn’t say) can be misconstrued if we ignore that context. People tend to imagine that whenever Jesus spoke, he was laying down universal principles and laws. But that isn’t always the case. Much of his teaching (or lack of it) was contextual. For example, Jesus lived in a time when slavery was embedded into the social fabric. He never denounced the institution of slavery. Some of his parables involved slaves being physically beaten by their masters, and he didn’t present it as wrong. Does this mean that slavery and beating of slaves was/is okay in the sight of God? Of course not. This has huge implications for how we appeal to Jesus on many issues, for example, on sexual morality.

http://www.lifezette.com/faithzette/the-worst-thing-to-think-about-jesus/

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By: bekamartin http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/07/18/have-the-conversation-on-lgbtqia-part-3/#comment-18855 Mon, 20 Jul 2015 23:08:40 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=9370#comment-18855 Mind-blowing!

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By: BrianK http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/07/18/have-the-conversation-on-lgbtqia-part-3/#comment-18848 Mon, 20 Jul 2015 15:49:59 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=9370#comment-18848 Wow, heavy weekend! I’m still feeling the effects of watching The Imitation Game. I seem to have the blessing/curse to deeply absorb the feelings of injustice of other people’s experiences. I keep feeling the need to echo the voice of justice for LGBTQIA people, former ubf members, and any oppressed people.

My hope in this third part is to move away from the right/wrong arguments that will never be resolved, at least not in my lifetime. My vision for the church is to be infused with a healthy does of empathy. Our theologies would be much more helpful if we started with accepting people’s genuine situation and self-narratives.

I see Jesus doing this kind of thing all the time in Scripture. He didn’t shatter His ideas about God onto people, but led people closer into God from wherever they were. I think this is what Paul had in mind, at least partially, when he said to stay in your situation in which you were called.

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By: Joe Schafer http://www.ubfriends.org/2015/07/18/have-the-conversation-on-lgbtqia-part-3/#comment-18845 Mon, 20 Jul 2015 11:47:42 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=9370#comment-18845 Brian, thanks for this article. Until Sharon and I watched The Imitation Game, we did not know about Turing or this sad chapter in history. Then, on the same weekend, we watched Call The Midwife (a truly great BBC series) which dealt with the very same subject. A young man who is married to a young woman, with a baby on the way, yet struggles with homosexuality, and gets caught in a police sting. Season 4, Episode 3.It was heartbreaking.

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