Comments on: I Don’t Trust Dr. Ben http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/11/24/i-dont-trust-dr-ben/ for friends of University Bible Fellowship Wed, 21 Oct 2015 04:34:18 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=4.3.1 By: MattC http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/11/24/i-dont-trust-dr-ben/#comment-16036 Tue, 09 Dec 2014 15:58:44 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=8609#comment-16036 An English professor I had once said, don’t trust the writer, but trust what she/he wrote.

That means, we shouldn’t make assumptions about people we don’t know. But what people say, do, write, are tangible. We can “trust” that because it’s real. What we can’t trust are our own assumptions about people, their motives, and so on.

Of course, in many ways this ministry has done the opposite. We put trust in people because of claims and suggestions and assumptions (or not trust them for the same reasons).

We can trust in what people say and do–but we don’t have to believe them.

The fact that Ben is “trying on” a multi-faceted postmodern identity is apparent, and I can beleive he is expressing himself and seeing what works/what doesn’t. I like that.

And what would happen if we actually took people at what they said and did?

I also like your comments, If you say no, it’s done. If people say no to Bible study or meetings or whatever, ok. accept it. Marionetting people in positions can sometimees work to help them come to God, but only in an Isaac sort of way (ie. in spite of everything we do wrong, it comes out right) and this is very rarely a good story.

I also trust people when they communicate to me instead of communicating to others about me.

Also, trust is built when people respond to criticism instead of smiling and nervously laughing and saying nothing.

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By: c http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/11/24/i-dont-trust-dr-ben/#comment-15972 Wed, 26 Nov 2014 19:40:56 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=8609#comment-15972 Hi Ben. I agree with what others have said above regarding your trustworthiness. Your article brings two things to mind regarding “trust”: 1) a personal trust (that is, of the person Ben); and 2) a trust of the UBF-man Ben (that is, this is really more an issue of compliance). You listed personal characteristics but in the reasons why people have said (behind your back) that they don’t trust you shows me that it’s about not trusting you as a worker/propagator in the UBF context, despite your decades of such as a UBF man and still claiming to love and be in UBF. In my opinion, this is also why reconciliation is not such a concern to others. Or, I am just reading and projecting my own experiences into your article!

Maybe I am too trusting of others, but generally I like to trust others unless they have shown me otherwise, especially those who claim to believe in Jesus. I know that trust isn’t easy to earn though very easy to lose. Having a change of opinion, however, even deviating greatly from tradition or the status quo, doesn’t seem to me to be a reason to say you don’t trust someone. Which points out the lack of personal relationships with others, despite years of “co-working” together.

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By: Ben Toh http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/11/24/i-dont-trust-dr-ben/#comment-15961 Wed, 26 Nov 2014 01:30:16 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=8609#comment-15961 Thanks, guys, friends, for your very touching comments that moved my heart. Now I have the task of not letting the nice things you’re said get to my head.

Also, I need to brace myself to eventually hear some people say that I love ubfriends because I love being praised and “exalted” for blogging and doing nothing, while I refuse and reject real discipleship training and humbleness training in ubf.

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By: David W http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/11/24/i-dont-trust-dr-ben/#comment-15959 Tue, 25 Nov 2014 22:40:51 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=8609#comment-15959 I trust Dr. Ben because he is honest and he speaks and acts as one who is fully alive. He doesn’t try to b.s. or mislead you, rather he is upfront about what he dislikes and what he is passionate about. And most importantly, he is not afraid to admit his failings and flaws. It is very rare, in this day and age, to find someone like this in the church.

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By: big bear http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/11/24/i-dont-trust-dr-ben/#comment-15956 Tue, 25 Nov 2014 21:51:29 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=8609#comment-15956 I trust Dr Ben, Brian, Joe, Mark, David, Michael Chris and those on UBFriends. Many in UBF don’t understand that they have to earn trust just cant slap a missionary, shepherd or Pastor title on someone just because they do all that UBF requires of them and are political correct. Dr Ben is a man of integrity. He does not sweep the bad and ugly under a rug and say, “Trust God.” I sincerely hope that change is coming for the health of families, students, and the body of Christ. God will do it..starting with men of true integrity.

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By: Ben Toh http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/11/24/i-dont-trust-dr-ben/#comment-15951 Tue, 25 Nov 2014 03:37:55 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=8609#comment-15951 Thanks, Brian. Though some have questioned me about this, I do trust you, even though we both have some pretty rough edges and some points of disagreement. :-)

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By: Ben Toh http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/11/24/i-dont-trust-dr-ben/#comment-15950 Tue, 25 Nov 2014 03:36:16 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=8609#comment-15950 Thanks, Joe. Though some may not like you saying this, it is such a soothing comfort for me to hear you say this. Some, of course, would think that I am posting this to “get back at them.” I don’t think I can help this, other than to no longer blog publicly anymore.

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By: Ben Toh http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/11/24/i-dont-trust-dr-ben/#comment-15949 Tue, 25 Nov 2014 03:32:54 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=8609#comment-15949 I actually do want to “move on, look at good things, forgive,” and I’d like to think that in some way I have done this. Yet, I am of the firm conviction that I also need to look back and address the things that grieve and dishonor God, since they were done in His name, albeit with “good intentions.” I hope this does not come across as sanctimonious.

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By: forestsfailyou http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/11/24/i-dont-trust-dr-ben/#comment-15948 Tue, 25 Nov 2014 02:56:44 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=8609#comment-15948 Reading your posts here made me trust you more than any other UBF person. You are not afraid to tell about bad things, admit wrongs. Normally the response to bad history is to just move on, look at good things, forgive.

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By: BrianK http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/11/24/i-dont-trust-dr-ben/#comment-15947 Tue, 25 Nov 2014 02:24:08 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=8609#comment-15947 Hey everyone look at the title of the latest ubf.org article.

Don’t we all need some relief from ubf? Oh wait, they mean money.

Relief from UBF

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By: Joe Schafer http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/11/24/i-dont-trust-dr-ben/#comment-15946 Tue, 25 Nov 2014 01:22:23 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=8609#comment-15946 Why do I trust Ben? Because I can count on him to be honest and say what he really thinks. He doesn’t lie to keep up appearances or to gain cheap approval. We don’t always agree. But if he doesn’t agree with me, he won’t pretend that he does. That’s the mark of a trustworthy person.

But I don’t trust those people who don’t trust Ben. I don’t trust them because they won’t be up front and honest about why they don’t trust him. They don’t trust Ben because Ben follows his conscience rather than the ubf party line.

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By: BrianK http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/11/24/i-dont-trust-dr-ben/#comment-15945 Tue, 25 Nov 2014 00:10:00 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=8609#comment-15945 My other two thoughts are these:

I have a VERY difficult time trusting anyone at ubf.

However I CAN trust Dr. Ben, WestLoop and our ubfriends :)

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By: BrianK http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/11/24/i-dont-trust-dr-ben/#comment-15944 Tue, 25 Nov 2014 00:07:29 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=8609#comment-15944 I can relate to the emotions you are expressing, Ben. In my soul I have experienced “third heaven” joy, peace and contentment beyond belief. In my work I have experienced numerous victories regarding communication, relationship building and leadership. I’ve found pockets of people in online communities who “get it” when I express my thoughts. And I’m in the process of building an actual marriage.

So when someone shares that I am “doing Satan’s work”, it stings. I can tell from experience making absurd claims like that hurts way worse than being told your ministry has problems. When I was Mr. UBF, I was hurt by what Chris and others said, but it was a mild pain, like that of a surgeon’s knife. I healed quickly and was better off for hearing what ex-members said. But the vicious rumor mill at ubf is just dreadful to bear; the ubf rumor mill is so un-Christ-like and far more like the sin of gossip than anything we’ve ever shared on this blog.

Like you, I just shake it off… haters gonna hate, breakers gonna break, fakers gonna fake…

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By: Ben Toh http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/11/24/i-dont-trust-dr-ben/#comment-15943 Mon, 24 Nov 2014 22:56:07 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=8609#comment-15943 I just thought of another reason why some people don’t trust me. I write posts like this one!

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