Comments on: Generation: Found http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/05/20/generation-found/ for friends of University Bible Fellowship Wed, 21 Oct 2015 04:34:18 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=4.3.1 By: MJ Peace http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/05/20/generation-found/#comment-13962 Fri, 23 May 2014 18:59:34 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=7934#comment-13962 When I say face-to-face, I’m talking about in my home chapter, WL. I don’t know people from other chapters really well.

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By: MJ Peace http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/05/20/generation-found/#comment-13961 Fri, 23 May 2014 18:48:53 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=7934#comment-13961 Man, David W. I just missed you and I liked your article; I want to hear more! But I hope you finish your dissertation well. I’m sorry that ubfriends isn’t what you wanted it to be. (It can be though; life is what you make it.) And I’m sorry c for all the frustration you have with trying to change things in your chapter.

I like that unity is not uniformity. They are completely different. We can have different views on certain non-essential topics and still be united. I consider myself from the “young” generation and from the “lost/found” generation. I only experienced the negative side of UBF for four years, but it has changed my view of Christian life radically. It was a painful lesson and it leaves scars. But now it gives me direction; I don’t want any person to go through what I had to go through.

And I see ubfriends as a tool towards that end. I’m hoping that ubfriends will start to become an off-line thing too. So that these issues can be talked about face-to-face.

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By: Chris http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/05/20/generation-found/#comment-13925 Wed, 21 May 2014 19:27:55 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=7934#comment-13925 Thanks for participating, David, and good luck with your dissertation. Hope we will see you again here.

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By: David W http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/05/20/generation-found/#comment-13921 Wed, 21 May 2014 14:31:45 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=7934#comment-13921 Hi everyone, thanks for the insightful comments. I suppose this article expresses my desire that those in my peer group would join in the discussions here. There is so much potential to learn theological and experiential truths from you all. But for various reasons, which have already been stated, that is not going to happen in this particular forum. While this makes me a bit sad, I have reasonable hope that this kind of dialogue will eventually occur.

I’m going to be signing off from ubfriends for a while in order to take care of some practical matters, namely finishing my dissertation. If you’re interested in any of my personal reflections, you can visit my blog by clicking on my name. We’re studying Mark’s gospel so I’ll most likely write blogs on that, in addition to some other good stuff. I’ve enjoyed the conversations here and I’ll keep in touch with you all through email. Thanks and God bless.

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By: big bear http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/05/20/generation-found/#comment-13919 Wed, 21 May 2014 11:25:42 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=7934#comment-13919 Agree here with Ben…the spiritual order is broken if the older missionaries listen to the younger shepherds…..it is all about pride and power over others…..many in UBF lord over others with no respect for others….I witnessed so much in Cincinnati UBF…you are taught to believe what the older UBF members say is gospel….they are only keepers of the teisted theolgy but observe their families and their lives…interview their children…you will find something very ugly…

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By: Ben Toh http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/05/20/generation-found/#comment-13916 Wed, 21 May 2014 09:51:23 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=7934#comment-13916 Charles, being “young” is a matter of perspective, sentiment and opinion.

I fear that (many or some) older ubf leaders and missionaries convey that you and those your age and even older are “young.” This sadly carries the implication that you are still inexperienced, immature and quite incapable of being entrusted to lead, WITHOUT their supervision, approval or disapproval, correction, etc. Heck, you are also totally incapable of finding your own spouse without their input or introduction of someone to you. If you even dare to date on your own you’re just proud and lustful.

This goes against both scripture (1 Tim 4:12; Ac 14:23) and history, both biblical and secular. That’s why I screamed http://www.ubfriends.org/2012/07/31/let-local-leaders-lead/

This unhealthy unbiblical paradigm of the missionary always needing to call the shots and always needing to be the final say is both bad for their disciples such as you, and also for them.

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By: c http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/05/20/generation-found/#comment-13911 Wed, 21 May 2014 04:56:41 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=7934#comment-13911 David, I’m not of the generation of BK, Joe, and Ben. I joined UBF much later, in 2000. But I’m afraid I’m seeing the next generation in the process of being lost. And I think, should they be “found” later too?

About what you wrote,
My strong belief is that change in UBF will be a bottom-up approach. – See more at: http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/05/20/generation-found/#sthash.vbAfusdl.dpuf

I used to think that this kind of change was necessary and at times exciting. But now I’ve grown pessimistic and tired of it. I can’t imagine the feelings of those who came before me. I try to do what I can for the sake of younger and newer people in our chapter. But I’m also young! I don’t want to grow old like this. I’d like to be out doing things, rather than sitting in meeting after meeting after these same discussions about things that need to change, with saying the same things to older members over and over again. I don’t want to miss my own time. Yet, the grating of the ongoing frustrations is leading to apathy. I also have found it difficult to empower younger / newer people in this regard. They want to feel out the ministry more. They feel more room to leave. They are not as regarded or listened to. They are aware of the conflicting atmosphere between older/younger / American/Korean. Some may be give more allowance, and this may appear to show changes, but allowance is still just an allowance, which can be revoked later according to the will of the top. The “found” generation are just an extension to the top, and in many ways are not even that. Even if the younger generation connect them more closely, in what ways do you see they could be empowered? I don’t know. It’s one reason I wanted to participate on this site, instead of remaining being a silent reader.

I’m going to keep trying to consider your words here in the most positive way. At this point, I can’t help but focus on the top. Granted, I have seen some change at the local level. Still, more often it feels like the lid on a glass jar that you can’t open. After repeated tries, you just don’t want what’s in the jar anymore and you move on. Or, if you do happen to get the lid off, say, for example, of a ketchup bottle, but the ketchup doesn’t come out. You hit the side and get a butter knife to try to pry it out. It’s so unsatisfactory. When ketchup bottles were redesigned to be plastic and were turned upside down so that the lid was also the base, the ketchup flows out just as expected.

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By: Joe Schafer http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/05/20/generation-found/#comment-13910 Tue, 20 May 2014 23:50:29 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=7934#comment-13910 David, you wrote:

“One suggestion for the site is for those in the found generation to write articles geared toward the younger generation as to how to artfully, respectfully and courageously engage older members and leaders in UBF.” – See more at: http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/05/20/generation-found/#comment-13908

With Brian, I have to say: I’ve done that. Check out the first two years of articles on this website. I don’t know how to do it any more artfully, respectfully or courageously than I already have.

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By: BK http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/05/20/generation-found/#comment-13909 Tue, 20 May 2014 23:32:07 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=7934#comment-13909 All of which is why I will not leave the ubf conversation until I see the magnificent power of the gospel of Jesus Christ revealed.

I refuse to participate in reformation. I will not be part of a rebellion. I will not go rouge. I will stand for redemption and reconciliation, resting on the divine promises in the Holy Scriptures.

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By: BK http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/05/20/generation-found/#comment-13908 Tue, 20 May 2014 23:27:49 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=7934#comment-13908 David,

I appreciate the sentiment here in this article. My only 3 reactions are this:

1) I do not have enough cognitive dissonance left in me to consider myself “found”. I am glad you don’t quite understand us. That is some small evidence that you are healthier than us and in some small way ubf is a better place in some respects.

2) In regard to blogging books… if you look back on my articles and comments here and on my personal blogs, you should be able to see that I already did that :) I blogged about the content of first two books over the course of the 3 years prior to publishing them. The content is messy and disjointed, but I had “clay” to work with.

3) The “Korean way” is always the “yin and yang” philosophy. Every yang (positive/active/male principle) needs to be balanced by a yin (female/passive/negative principle). It’s even on their flag.

So the only way ubf has been any sort of good blessing is because for 53 years there has always been a yin out there, in addition to what God has done genuinely through his word. The success of ubf is owed greatly to their ability to generate the balancing force of yin. Without ex-ubf, ubf would collapse, just as North and South Korea remain pitted against each other. ubfriends is the “yin” to the ubf “yang”, and perhaps even vice-versa.

So like North and South Korea, ex-ubf and ubf remain locked in a symbiotic relationship that is difficult to end without destroying both.

I believe the answer to unlock the yin/yang principle is the gospel of Jesus Christ. When we gain enough people committed to reconciliation instead of reformation or rebellion, we will witness the amazing, astounding, all-surpassing power of the Christian gospel. You see, yin/yang can be dissolved, melted away by the power of the cross of Christ.

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By: Ben Toh http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/05/20/generation-found/#comment-13907 Tue, 20 May 2014 23:22:22 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=7934#comment-13907 Thanks, Dave, for regarding some of us “losts” (as in the lost generation, a moniker that actually appealed to me) as “founds”!

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By: Joe Schafer http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/05/20/generation-found/#comment-13903 Tue, 20 May 2014 23:10:13 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=7934#comment-13903 David, thanks for contributing this article. I hope it generates healthy discussion and leads to positive outcomes. I will just comment very briefly on something you wrote:

“At the end of the day, it is entirely your prerogative as to what you wish to publish.” – See more at: http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/05/20/generation-found/#more-7934

With very few exceptions, we publish whatever people submit. On a few occasions, we’ve asked authors to retool an article to make it more focused or more clear. But that’s very rare. If you send it in, we will publish it.

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