Comments on: Sin Is Having An Identity Other Than In God http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/03/04/sin-is-having-an-identity-other-than-in-god/ for friends of University Bible Fellowship Wed, 21 Oct 2015 04:34:18 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=4.3.1 By: Ben Toh http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/03/04/sin-is-having-an-identity-other-than-in-god/#comment-12802 Fri, 07 Mar 2014 22:12:40 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=7650#comment-12802 This is a very useful and helpful comment a friend sent me which I clearly failed to express: “it (is) a good article, dr. ben. i think with any critical self reflection, we can inadvertently dismiss the heart of an entire community’s efforts, which is ironically the antithesis of your article. it’s not necessarily your duty to always cover all grounds, but i can see why people would feel dismissed by what you wrote since you didn’t counter it with any mention of people’s good underlying, heart’s intention. it is probably true that not all people have the right heart’s motive, but some, even many do. though they may have been misled to think that using social pressures is okay, i find many people just want to be used by God for the salvation of souls and development of Jesus’ disciples.”

What was most useful which I clearly and sadly often neglect is “since you didn’t counter it with any mention of people’s good underlying, heart’s intention,” which I actually fully agree with.

The reason I’m still in UBF because I also believe this to be very true: “though they may have been misled to think that using social pressures is okay, i find many people just want to be used by God for the salvation of souls and development of Jesus’ disciples.”

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By: Jenn Garin http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/03/04/sin-is-having-an-identity-other-than-in-god/#comment-12793 Thu, 06 Mar 2014 15:15:09 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=7650#comment-12793 At times people tend to do things to be recognized and have trouble forgiving others over petty things but once they seek God and open their hearts to him and accepting his unconditional Love and his words, there is no way of denying the guilt because of the anger or desires that many people are drawn to. It’s like “sin is crouching at your door” (Gen 4:7)
But at times when I feel so troubled by such sin, I seek God then my heart becomes enlightened. Like a little child I gave in and felt his comfort.

Though at times I feel shy to show my identity in Christ, slowly but surely I am letting the faith overflow within me. I hope people seek their ways through God. This article is refreshing :)

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By: forestsfailyou http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/03/04/sin-is-having-an-identity-other-than-in-god/#comment-12792 Thu, 06 Mar 2014 14:39:51 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=7650#comment-12792 I agree Jimmon, we might go farther and say it is the problem of every generation.

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By: Jimmon-Paul Rubillos http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/03/04/sin-is-having-an-identity-other-than-in-god/#comment-12790 Thu, 06 Mar 2014 08:35:55 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=7650#comment-12790 Thank you for this article Dr. ben :)

Most youth of this generation has identity crisis. Many are lost, miserable, vain and broken. They cannot find meaning in life, even those who are born in a christian family. Truly, we have to find our identity in Christ Jesus alone, we are dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus. Our identity is not our past, not our great sins, and definitely not what we do, but what Jesus Christ has done for us.

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By: Ben Toh http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/03/04/sin-is-having-an-identity-other-than-in-god/#comment-12787 Tue, 04 Mar 2014 22:48:10 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=7650#comment-12787 Or “reserved for those Bible teachers who love their dogmatic Bible teaching more than Jesus.”

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By: Joe Schafer http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/03/04/sin-is-having-an-identity-other-than-in-god/#comment-12783 Tue, 04 Mar 2014 18:48:50 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=7650#comment-12783 “The deepest crevice of hell is reserved for those theologians who love their theologies more than Jesus.” – Karl Barth

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By: BK http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/03/04/sin-is-having-an-identity-other-than-in-god/#comment-12782 Tue, 04 Mar 2014 18:24:36 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=7650#comment-12782 Amen forests and well said.

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By: forestsfailyou http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/03/04/sin-is-having-an-identity-other-than-in-god/#comment-12780 Tue, 04 Mar 2014 18:14:39 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=7650#comment-12780 I just finished a short story called the Great Divorce. In the story a bus goes from Hell to Heaven. Angles try to convince the people to stay but most if not all want to go back. They all have varying reasons. Some want to go back because they cannot stand the thought of leaving their material things in hell (in hell you can imagine anything you want and you get it, but since it is not God it gives no satisfaction in the long run).
The angles ask the ghosts to give up everything to follow Christ. Some try to argue, but the angles say “You don’t understand. Everything is ok now. You don’t need that.” One part that struck me was George McDonald’s conversation with Cs Lewis. It reminded me of what I have been putting my identity in for quite a while:

“Ye’ll understand there are innumerable forms of this choice…there was a creature not long ago and went back [to hell]- Sir Archibald they called him. In his earthly life he’d been interested in nothing but survival. He’d written a whole shelf full of books about him…This country was no use to him at all. Everyone here had ‘survived’ already. Nobody took the least interest in the question. There was nothing more to prove.
‘How fantastic!’ said I.
‘Do ye think so?’ said the Teacher with a piercing glance. ‘It nearer to such as you than ye thing. There have been men before now who got so interested in proving the existence of God that they came to care nothing for God Himself…as if the good Lord had nothing to do but exist! There have been some who were so occupied in spreading Christianity they never gave a thought to Christ. Man! Ye see it in smaller matters. Did ye ever known a lover of books with all his first editions and signed copies had lost the power to read them?…It is the subtlest of all the snares.”

In college I roomed with an atheist and I spent a lot of my time arguing. I became pretty good at it, and get phone calls from time to time on the issue. But when I read this I realized that I have been putting more into the idea of proving God, not so much into He Himself. Perhaps it is because I have doubted his existence for most of my life, and it was simply that I could not have loved him with those doubts present. Whatever the reason, it is a sin- a very subtle sin. It is the sin of a good thing gone wrong. “Lilies that fester smell worse than weeds.” It is a good thing to witness to others and testify to God’s existence, but it bad to make the end of my walk with Christ.

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By: BK http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/03/04/sin-is-having-an-identity-other-than-in-god/#comment-12777 Tue, 04 Mar 2014 14:24:31 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=7650#comment-12777 Here are some things I’m doing to connect with my authentic self:

– participate in 2 cohort groups (JA and my local church)
– take numerous personality tests, such as Strength Finders
– create an “about.me” page, about me.
– begin a book writing project to tell my narratives
– let myself do anything I want to find out what I like and don’t like

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By: BK http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/03/04/sin-is-having-an-identity-other-than-in-god/#comment-12776 Tue, 04 Mar 2014 14:02:50 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=7650#comment-12776 “Now I want to look for positive ways to put off the false identities and accept my true identity in Christ.”

Yes Joe, that is a perfect description of my journey. I started out throwing off everything that was entangling me. And then I began searching for validity and accountability. I found those things, and so I’m not inclined to keep adding articles to my personal blog, which embodies my now deceases prior identity of “Shepherd Brian” which was an identity built on the “priestly nation” ideology. That identity and that ideology is now dead.

Now my journey has moved on to two new things:

1) I seek connection with orthodox Christianity, and right now pope Francis is my window to see the authentic Jesus.

2) I seek connection to my authentic self, the self who experienced a calling to be a priest at age 16, and the “me” who God created.

This Lent is a season for both of those connections

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By: BK http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/03/04/sin-is-having-an-identity-other-than-in-god/#comment-12775 Tue, 04 Mar 2014 13:55:15 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=7650#comment-12775 Great article Ben, which as Joe indicates, correctly points out both the root problem and the starting point for reconciliation between ubf and ex-ubf: identity. We all have to ask Who am I?

My first comment your article is to say that you express what I was attempting to communicate in our law/grace discussions: “Danaher explains how many Christians (and Pharisees) view sin as doing something bad, such as breaking the Ten Commandments. But their sin is ultimately in finding their identity in something else other than Christ.”

I don’t advocate lawlessness. I do advocate a deeper understanding and articulation of sin. Danaher does this far more eloquently than I ever could.

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By: Joe Schafer http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/03/04/sin-is-having-an-identity-other-than-in-god/#comment-12774 Tue, 04 Mar 2014 13:21:53 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=7650#comment-12774 Ben, thanks for posting this article.

Over the last few years, I’ve become acutely aware of my need to root my identity in Christ alone. I am guilty of all the bad things you mentioned. The problem has been identified. Now I want to look for positive ways to put off the false identities and accept my true identity in Christ.

One thing I am learning is that this is not merely a personal exercise. If I just pursue this on my own, I am doomed to fail, because much of this false-identity syndrome happens at the level of one’s group or tribe. It is not simply an individual sin, but a corporate sin. Tribalism gets encoded in a community’s DNA, and there is very little that one individual can do by himself to change that. We need the Spirit of God to redeem our relationships, to assemble us into a new kind of human community, a living temple with Christ Jesus as the chief cornerstone. This is a journey that God’s people must take together. Unfortunately, there are not many Christians who seem willing to embark on that journey; most would rather stay within the comfy boundaries of their own tribe and continue to bolster their collective ego at others’ expense.

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By: big bear http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/03/04/sin-is-having-an-identity-other-than-in-god/#comment-12773 Tue, 04 Mar 2014 13:19:51 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=7650#comment-12773 Ben toh get rid of first comment…hit wrong button

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By: big bear http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/03/04/sin-is-having-an-identity-other-than-in-god/#comment-12772 Tue, 04 Mar 2014 13:17:00 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=7650#comment-12772 Ben Toh…your books will be sent soon…please give me private feedback on facebook if like…I so agree with this post and understand how UBF is successful at making works our identity instead of relationship with Jesus or love for people, families and the body of Christ…in this way they are cultlike, after reading the book Unholy Devotion why cults lure Christians I came to understand UBF in a truthful light…writing my book brought me peace and assurance of God love wins and how this danger is in many churches….I wrote with tears and love….I have let go of the past…..my wife and I know God is leading us in his love

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By: big bear http://www.ubfriends.org/2014/03/04/sin-is-having-an-identity-other-than-in-god/#comment-12771 Tue, 04 Mar 2014 13:11:33 +0000 http://www.ubfriends.org/?p=7650#comment-12771 Ben Toh…your books will be sent soon…please give me private feedback on facebook if like…I so agree with this post and understand how UBF is successful at making works our identity instead of relationship with Jesus or love for people, families and the body of Christ…in this way they are cultlike, after reading the book Unholy Devotion why cults lure Christians I came to understand UBF in a truthful light…writing my book brought me peace and assurance ofvGod love wins

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