seriously now, God is not talking on the mountain anymore, Jesus is sitting at right hand of God (not walking on earth), so it’s time for the Holy Spirit to help
(regardless of man’s ideas which only God knows sure interpretation anyway!)

HALLELUJAH!

we can bow to religion or we can make it worship God, just as Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath (certainly the Sabbath was in no way lord of Him)

“I would have said Adios Amigos long before all that.”

I wanted to. So why didn’t I? Because I love Jesus. Because I believe people can be changed by the gospel. Because I believe God called me to be an instrument to UBF. But also because of fear. I feared what would happen if I spoke up. I feared being shunned. I feared going to hell. I feared more angry rebukes.

And guess what Terry… I also stayed because of people gave me advice just like you have expressed here already.

I am no longer bound by fear. Christ broke those chains.

When did you adopt your dogs, before coming to Kiev, after separating with Peter Kim or sometime between? Once I had a pet rat for 3 weeks while I was in ubf. No, I did not eat it, I gave it to another shepherd who loved him very much. The day the rat was dying he called me at 11 pm and asked me to drive both of them to the clinic. I refused him – it was one of my few refusals in ubf. I hope he forgave me for it. To my knowledge there were no dog in Moscow ubf – for 10+ years I remember one cat, two rats, one rabbit, and several turtles. The shepherd family with the cat was under pressure because the cat scared a woman missionary who studied 1-1 at their kitchen. Some time later the missionary and the cat became friends. Nevertheless the family left the ubf later.

“You can’t blame the institution for not having a pet or spending time with your family”.

During 12 years in UBF I never visit on weekends my mother who lived only 200 km away. According to your statement I can’t blame highly demanding ubf leadership for this. But i do. I found the way to spend time with my mother – I took days-off from my job to visit her. But I was heavily blamed for missing yet another Thursday meeting.
I hope your dogs are not living better lives then shepherds in your next door Kiev ubf.

The exodus and expulsion of half of the German UBF members during the reform is another example. In UBF, nobody cared, and nobody was held accountable for this until today, though clearly, Abraham Lee, Peter Chang and Kaleb Hong caused this division. People like these or Paul Hong are never held accountable in UBF. You claim that it’s not your sake. But whose sake is it then to hold people accountable, if your organization has a structure according to which leaders are not accountable?

You wrote, “That is the problem of one man in Toledo…” I wish that were the case, but it’s not. Similar things happened in Chicago and elsewhere and are sometimes still happening. There is such a thing as corporate sin. I wouldn’t want to single out one person and make him a scapegoat for bad practices and poor theology that have been embedded in an organization’s culture for a very long time. Yes, people need to take personal responsibility for what they have done. But to treat the things that Brian mentioned as isolated problems just isn’t realistic.

That’s what I’m saying. You make a discrenment between God and man. Many UBFers don’t. For them, the “visible servant of God” (wording by your chapter director) is the representative of God, he gives them orientation and is very well allowed to judge them. These people have “captive hearts and captive minds” (title of a highly recommended book by Madeleine Landau Tobias, Janja Lalich and Michael Langone). I can really say that I was among them; and it was NOT only my own fault, I did not make up this idea on my own, my chapter directory captivated my mind in such a way, and he deliberately did so. He taught us that we have to obey the will of God absolutely, and the will of God was ordained to us by the servants of God (like him or Samuel Lee). Now you come across as somebody who tells us we were stupid to believe all these things our chapter directors told us, gloating over your independent, not captivated mind.

The great problem with writing and not talking in person is that you can never really know when someone is ‘gloating’ or saying something out of amazement. I was trying to say that it took a way better man than me to stay as long as he did. Is that clear enough for you? Also, you think that I didn’t get your point when you posted your long post and I beg to differ. I think I got your point loud and clear. And finally, I never said you had to esteem Samuel Lee, you think I wrote that, but I NEVER did. I said, criticizing a dead man is weak and unimpressive. Not to long ago you criticized me for not reading what you wrote and instead that I read into what you wrote, but in truth from the very beginning, people here wrote that I was trying to equate Samuel Lee with Saul. But I NEVER did that either, you all read into my simple question, ‘Why did David sing a song of praise concerning Saul? That is all I ever asked. You guys took it from there… I take my calling that I received while in UBF very seriously, just because I don’t buy into all the nonsense, doesn’t mean I don’t. That is why I’m not leaving the ministry. I met God here personally. I received my calling to serve campus students here (but that isn’t the limit of my calling or service to God). Just because I tell you and others ‘I don’t care what people think’ doesn’t mean I don’t care what I am doing. I absolutely do. But I realize that my Judge, my ONLY Judge is God and NO man. Neither you or anyone else. So don’t misunderstand me.

I’ll call a spade a spade. If someone mistreated me, I’d say something to them. What Brain shared I truly believe is unbelievably wrong and I would have left. Would I have called the ministry a cult because of it? No I wouldn’t. That is the problem of one man in Toledo and he will have to answer for it and deal with it and all the repercussions of it also. But not to me. He’s not my enemy and I’m not his judge.

Actually, I explained to you in a very long comment why people like us stayed in UBF and put of with all the abuse and nonsense for so long. It seems you haven’t understood. We really believed in all the ideological garbage they implanted into us. Obviously you didn’t, but you shouldn’t gloat about that and thereby kind of declare the other members who really took UBF and the things that Samuel Lee preached seriously.

Did I also mention that Samuel Lee preached that people who abandon the mission (and who do not obey him as the “commander”) would experience accidents? Or that campus mission is our calling and the only thing that gives our lives and marriage a purpose and meaning? So people who believed that garbage were idiots? And at the same time you say we should esteem the life of Samuel Lee?

That is waaaay insane and overboard. I’m surprised you stayed as long as you did. I would have said Adios Amigos long before all that…

FYI-I am in Westloop and my sister is Maria Peace. I just wanted to clarify about our chapter and what we follow. We follow the Holy Scriptures that reveal the gospel thus we struggle to live by His grace alone so that we live out our gospel-centered faith in community and life. Now to say that we in westloop do the opposite of what SL taught is not quite true. In fact, I personally am thankful and moved by Samuel Lee’s life for he taught me many spiritual lessons while he was alive. But I also know he is a sinner like me. Whatever style we follow, we must hold unto Christ Crucified.

In fact there are now two opposite extremes. Those who follow the old SL style and those who turned around to do the opposite of what SL taught, like Westloop, because they experienced, understood and acknowledged how bad the old style was. Brian called these the “redeemed” chapters. However, this is not a situation that can last forever. Either the “redeemed” chapters will finally be expelled (as SL did in the past with all who did not follow his style), or they will disassociate themselves from the old UBF when they see that there is no hope for change in the rest of UBF any more. What good is it to stay forever in an unhealthy organization that teaches and practices the opposite of what you believe is right? Or, to quote the Apostle Paul: “What fellowship can light have with darkness?”

yet, in the meantime we must forge ahead with Holy Spirit help

it is inevitable that we all must face the futility of human efforts/gains; we all must forgo privileged human benefits & be content with sufficient God given benefits

(those not willing to do so, only increase their own elevated fall when some day their inflated life bubble bursts)

We had one university student who went to Nova Siberia to be with her family for a month. Her whole family are atheists there. We told her please go and pray for them. Who else could reach them for the gospel if not her. When our members want to visit their family on the weekends and miss our SWS we bless them. We tell our students to preach the gospel to their family as well. I know all the family members of our students. John and I even visited their homes and had SWS with them. One of our student’s father who was against God and suffered from depression and suicidal tendency and was unemployed. We put him to work to built our house. He worked for us 7 years now. Yes, we are still working on our house. He has peace and became such a happy man. He told me he has such little faith. I told him, so do I but it is God who helps us. A little faith can go far when we believe in God.

Chapters in UBF are different like night and day. That is why we need a code of ethics and a sound theology. We can learn a lot from people who left our ministry. We need to learn from them and see what went wrong. What needs to change. How we can reconcile and treat each others as brothers and sisters in Christ. I believe this is what Jesus meant when he said, “By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” John13:35 If we can not love other Christians especially those who were once in our ministry, we can not call ourselves Christians. Even Jesus said love your enemies. How much more our former brothers and sisters in UBF.

Maria, the problem is that it’s not only me who was affected, but many other members who had to (and still have to) go through this, or who went through this and then left UBF or even left Christian faith because of the bad experience. And not only in my chapter, but in many similar UBF chapters all around the world (ask Vitaly for example). You should be sorry for all of them, not just me.

You wrote that you could visit your parents every week, but it was not possible for me because they lived too far away. I never could visit them on the weekend because SWS attendance was obligatory. As I already mentioned, when I missed a single meeting on a Sunday (an additional meeting, not the SWS!) to spend time with my mother, this was enough reason for my chapter director to cancel my marriage. UBF was always willing to accept practical and financial help of the members’ parents (e.g. when I was a student, my offering money was actually taken from my parents’ financial support), but when my parents needed any support from me, I was not allowed to visit them (theoretically it was allowed, but practically it was not possible because of the distance and all the weekly mandatory meetings – it was not allowed to take a hiatus from UBF even for a weekend or a whole week to visit them).

“But not everyone can follow such a regime as you mentioned Chris.”

This sounds as if I was only to weak. As if it was something that was only bad for me, but as if it could potentially good for other people. No, such a regime isn’t good for anybody because it is not in line with the gospel at all: “It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.” People who abuse the gospel to put other people under a yoke are counteracting the work of Christ. As Martin Luther said: “I want to preach it, I want to say it, I want to write it, but I don’t want to push and coerce anybody with force, because faith must be willing and uncoerced and must be accepted without compulsion.”

for example the expectation for both parents to do everything (finding/affording/trusting babysitters): those days have not/will not be forgotten…:)

on the other hand, ‘getting strong now” like Rocky: those more abused have become stronger survivors, HALLELUJAH!

“all the 30-40 members had to sit in a circle and everybody had to report again the number of 1:1 he or she made with sheep, had to repeat one point that he or she learned from the Sunday sermon of the director, and had to give a promise how many 1:1s he or she will make next week (“I pray for…”). It was an immense group pressure, like in a doorstep brigade meeting.”

Yes it was the same for our chapter for many years. Ours was eventually changed to be a mandatory fellowship leader’s meeting instead of all 30 to 40 members of of chapter.

For me there was also the post-Sunday meetings for administrative stuff like counting offering, preparing my fellowship report, preparing the chapter weekly report, preparing the offering report, sending all summary reports to Chicago and finally delivering the offering money.

Here are some highlights from those mandatory Sunday meetings (which were the culmination of about 30 hours of meetings all through the week).

1. During one Sunday meeting I was suddenly appointed as fellowship leader because my shepherd had left the ministry with his wife.

2. During one Sunday meeting I was told to confess that I had acted like Satan and would repent for being too family-centered. [I had done the unthinkable– I attended my brother’s wedding on Saturday]

3. During one Sunday meeting we came up with a plan to protect the chapter from “Donny Dynamo”, who was a “sheep” who had become physically violent during one Friday meeting and who had pronounced judgment against us in one Friday testimony.

4. During many Sunday meetings we discussed who would be marrying and how they would be married.

5. During one Sunday meeting after Christmas we were rebuked for not reaching our offering goal (something like $13,000 and we only made $11,000 or so). We were told to make a “make-up offering”.

6. During one Sunday meeting when all the ministry was there, we divided into multiple groups to pray: those who had no sheep, those who had 1 sheep and those who had more than 1.

7. During multiple Sunday meetings we discussed all our plans for getting sheep to come to the next conference. Everyone had to share in detail what steps they would be taking to ensure their sheep would be attending. We all knew who was lagging behind due to the 6 ft by 6 ft chart of conference attendance we always had to make.

http://www.ubfriends.org/2013/08/26/forgiveness-loyalty-love-and-life/#comment-10446

I have had it easy for schedule in many ways. I did participate in chapters which regimented and documented activity and how you spend your time. However, after my initial conflict I did not know how to properly participate in all such activities. In fact the pressure was indeed there, but I had already lost my chance by being vocal. After I did attend such meetings and did try to do things it was not enough anyway. So, at the loss of being exalted I just gave up and gladly took the lowest place.

I have been silent about Terry’s words in this area, but what offends me most of all is the frequent use of “I don’t care.” If those are the feelings of someone who has in fact been made an elder then it distresses me very much. There are many young people who I have met in the past who wanted to serve in so many ways and they in many cases could not endure past the 1:1 relationship. “I don’t care…” it is not the statement itself, it was how often it was used and in which contexts. I will say this I do hope Terry returns online, but I understand if he doesn’t. Also Chris, don’t hold back on commenting – your input helps a lot. You always stand by your original concerns to the end. You also give a fair explanation when necessary.

Again, I cannot leave such statments uncommented.

We had to meet in the center every morning, very, very early. It was called “Frühgebetsstunde” (“early morning prayer hour”) for a reason. And it was also called “Stille Zeit” (“quiet time”) for a reason. Someobe had to prepare a special “daily bread” sogam every day (in addition to the usual weekly sogams) which was delivered from the pulpit, and then in the rest of the time we were expected to write “daily bread” and pray in silence for at least an hour. After that, we prayed in “circles” (for the usual number goals, for Samuel Lee and Sarah Barry, and against the “ungodly individualism” of our sheep and students as by instruction of our chapter director). All the shepherds and missionaries were expected to attend the early morning meetings. And most of the missionaries needed to commute by train to go to work. So there was only a quick collective breakfast in the center between the daily bread meeting and going to work. There was no quality time with husband or family alone at the breakfast table for our shepherds or missionaries. All this regimentation of time was ordered by our chapter director to keep us in spiritual discipline.

He also prescribed that a sogam had to have three parts: Part 1) “review” (how I spent last week, review of spiritual victories and failures), part 2) main part, rumination of the weekly lecture that had been preached by the director on Sunday,
part 3) “outlook” (promise which spiritual victories you want to achieve next week). Of course, the spiritual victories were mostly having 1:1s with sheep or fishing new sheep, and in real life it was usually failure, not victory. In part 1) people repented for having failed to have the expected number (12 was good, 4 was acceptable, 2 was absolute minimum) of sheep and in part 3) they promised to make every effort to achieve that number next week. It was a vicious circle of failure and guilt and group pressure. The constant feeling fo guilt and failure kept you at work in the UBF hamster wheel and prevented you from criticizing anything because unworthy sinners are not allowed to criticize servants of God (who was exempt from everything and never shared such a sogam).

And in addition to these weekly sogam sharing sessions (often different kinds of meetings per week), we also had a special “staff meeting” after the Sunday service. In that meeting, all the 30-40 members had to sit in a circle and everybody had to report again the number of 1:1 he or she made with sheep, had to repeat one point that he or she learned from the Sunday sermon of the director, and had to give a promise how many 1:1s he or she will make next week (“I pray for…”). It was an immense group pressure, like in a doorstep brigade meeting. There were always 2 or 3 missionaries who could not find sheep for various reasons (e.g. they were not talented to learn the language and/or they were shy and introvert) and they always had to confess they failed to have 1:1s but still had to say “I pray for… (at least 2 sheep)”.

That was just to give you an imagination of the atmosphere in our chapter (and in some German chapters it was even worse) and help you understand why I’m upset when I hear you had so much freedom. All the missionaries, including those who were married with children, were expected to take part in all of these activities. Whenever the chapter director (who did not have a day job) felt we had too much time, or when there was a holiday, he simply added another meeting to our schedule. So when I hear people talking about quality time with family or having pet dogs as if this was normal in UBF, I can only laugh (a bitter laugh). I remember that even after I left, I felt guilty when I tried to have only one week vacation with my family. It was so ingrained into my brain that vacation was unspiritual. The feeling to just have time for your family without attending any meetings was so unusual and guilt-provoking for us that we even found and attended a Bible study group at the place where we made vacation in order to appease our manipulated conscience.

but let’s face it, many ‘extreme shepherding’ situations did not have time/$ for that (work/family/MISSION/etc)

of course some individuals may have had less survival responsibilities at some time depending on their resources or CONNECTIONS

also some places farther from HQ like California may have had more freedom, especially if leaders were less anxious/controlling…& don’t forget, in America historically all fads good or bad start in Cali & head east:)

luckily dogs are man’s best friend so they usually don’t eat their owner, but if owners eat them, others may catch on & get even for them:))) just a little reminder to humans to be as kind as animals, if possible, if ‘faith’ allows……….

In my part of UBF, having a pet dog was unthinkable for a missionary or a shepherd. Heck, the director’s wife even adviced my wife to stop breastfeeding so that she could spare time for UBF activities! If you aren’t given time to feed your own baby, how could you take time to care for a dog? I also met no other shepherd or missionary in my 10 years in Germany UBF who had a dog. Nobody dared to even think about taking time for pets, vacations, hobbies. It was all unspiritual, you had to give all your energy, 100% for campus mission, you had to give account about your activities in your sogam every week, you had to give account about how many people you fished and how many you made Bible study with every Sunday. If you had many sheep, you were busy with preparing and conducting all the 1:1s with the sheep, and if you had no sheep, you were expected to go fishing every day until you had at least four. Everything else was considered distraction and a lazy worldly lifestyle. How can you have time for a dog when you have to attend endless meetings every week and spend most of the weekend in the UBF center? And then there was all the sogam writing, message writing, conference preparations etc. Maybe it was possible to have some secret time for yourself when you were unemployed and not studying at the university, but nobody was in that situation, and it would have still been considered unspiritual. Maria, I believe it was not much different when you were still in Chicago under the regiment of Samuel Lee. It’s only now in Kiev that you’re allowed more freedom.

“You can’t blame the institution for not having a pet or spending time with your family.”

When the institution controls your life, yes you can blame the institution.

“Terry has a wonderful and close relationship with his wife while being in UBF. I know many who also have it.”

That’s nice.

“I just want to keep the record straight.”

But you are just sharing a different experience. We don’t dispute that it is possible to have such good experiences as you have. Sharing a different experience is not the same things as setting the record straight.

And, sadly, there are many in the organization and leadership who, if they saw what you just wrote, will say that you are not being fair and balanced because you
* failed to include a long introductory paragraph that praises God for all the great and glorious things he has done through UBF, and you
* failed to express how thankful you are for God’s servants and all that they have done for you.

I understand that an introductory paragraph that lauds our great leaders and traditions is a standard cultural practice for some. If they feel the need to always do that, fine, they don’t have to stop doing it on my account. But I have stopped doing it as a matter of principle, because it’s not part of my culture, and because I think it’s condescending. If people want to interpret this as a sign that we are bitter, immature, blatantly unbalanced, etc. then I cannot stop them. But in my opinion, AbNial, you are none of those things. You are a man of principle and conscience and you tell the truth.

That’s just sick. So we have had a missionary candidate couple who were demanded to have an abortion as a requirement to become missionaries and now someone eating his dog out of obedience.

That’s what happens when you bind people’s lives to a heritage wrapped in Confucian values with a warped or missing gospel.

Please feel free to give me your feedback on my write up for chapter 1: http://westloop-church.org/index.php/messages/new-testament/38-revelation-messages/315-blessed-is-the-one-who-reads-revelation-revelation-1-1-20

An American leader in New Jersey was told to euthanize his dog, and he obeyed. He killed, but I assume he did not eat.

“We had a ubf missionary in Yekaterinburg. He lived with a dog before ubf. When he became a ubf shepherd he was asked to eat his dog “by faith”. And he obeyed, absolutely. That’s ubf!!!” – See more at: http://www.ubfriends.org/2013/08/26/forgiveness-loyalty-love-and-life/#comment-10371

The books and commentaries I prefer tend to be ammilennial/idealist, while I am also reading John MacArthur who is premillenial/futurist. Those postures and preferred positions have caused massive schisms, debates and disagreements, that have not been pleasant or amicable.

Hopefully, by God’s grace, we may embrace each others preferred view. As the joke says, “Instead of being premillenial, ammillenial or postmillenial, let’s just be panmillenial, because it will all pan out in the end.”

And I shared already. We had a ubf missionary in Yekaterinburg. He lived with a dog before ubf. When he became a ubf shepherd he was asked to eat his dog “by faith”. And he obeyed, absolutely. That’s ubf!!!

Actually Germans speak English much better than Russians. I admired how any German at an ISBC prayed in English and spoke in English fluently (When ubf missionaries from Germany prayed it seemed awful to me)). Your English is much better/richer than mine. I wonder how your wife speak German now. Hasn’t she forgotten Russian/Ukrainian yet? Or maybe you has learnt some Russian?

I am reading a book now about the Nicolas II’s death. I learnt many interesting things that Russians and Germans are brother-nations. Nicolas’s wife was German. But German goverment betrayed the Russian emperor’s family for the sake of some political and economical interests and supported killing the family.

btw Russians lived in the north part of the modern Germany. Do you know the Rostok town? Rostok is a Russian word and there are many towns near Rostok which have Russian names. In our region we had a German governor for many years. Our pastor now is partly German. His grandma left Russia for Germany to receive a better pension and to share it with Russian churches. Germans are famous in Russia for being very accurate and loving order. That’s why there were so many German housekeepers in the Russian Empire. Even now there some German villages in Russia and they look like the places of absolute order, they look like Germany inside of Russia )) And the ubf’s approach to Germans in “stop thinking and keep shooting” style seem to me just crazy.

Ben, preaching through Revelation will be a great challenge and useful exercise. Some ubf chapters have tried to do it. For example, Washington did a couple of years ago. The commentaries that they relied on were premillennial and dispensationalist (basically, American fundamentalist), which were the kinds of things that were being taught at the seminary where the director was studying. But as you may know, UBF has never been big on that sort of thing, because of the ministry’s Presbyterian roots. SL leaned toward amillennialism, and SB didn’t (doesn’t) like premillennialism or dispensationalism either. The ministry never gave chapter directors any concrete ideas on how to handle Revelation, so some chapters did their own thing and began to pick up this premillennial stuff from the very conservative / fundie types in America. Some on the senior staff don’t like it either, and once I heard PH say it was “embarassing” that some UBF missionaries were teaching this stuff.

Sharon and I really like “Reversed Thunder” by Eugene Peterson (author of The Message). He presents Revelation as pastoral poetry, and gives lots of interesting ideas on how to bring out its relevance for modern times. I’ve heard good things about Gordon Fee’s commentary as well.

Sharon and I really like “Reversed Thunder” by Eugene Peterson (author of The Message). He presents Revelation as pastoral poetry, and gives lots of interesting ideas on how to bring out its relevance for modern times. I’ve heard good things about Gordon Fee’s commentary as well.

* Also, a few years ago we preached through Galatians by referencing John Stott’s excellent commentary on Galatians. This was transformative in that we/I discovered that the freedom of the Gospel is the freedom from the sin of legalism, that is, the freedom of older brother sins, rather than younger brother sins.

* Presently, for the rest of the year, I hope to preach through Revelation, God willing, by focusing on the gospel, rather than speculative futuristic prophecy.

As Joe alluded to, the popular Bible stories, need to be understood from the perspective of how it points to the gospel–to God, or to man/sin, or to redemption/Christ, etc. If this is not done, as is often the case, then all these stories are simply used as illustrative examples of how to live as a Christian. Some common ones (that I am guilty of) are:

# Be like Able, not Cain; build an ark of salvation like Noah; be a father of faith like Abraham, not a compromiser like Lot, dig wells like Isaac, don’t be an animal man like Esau; conquer the giants in your life, as David slew Goliath, etc. Teaching the Bible in such a way primarily produces moralistic and legalistic Christians.

As already mentioned, we need to study the Bible in a Christocentric, or Christotelic way.

* Presently, for the rest of the year, I hope to preach through Revelation, God willing, by focusing on the gospel, rather than speculative futuristic prophecy.

* helped me to understand how my own cultural values and presuppositions and community have colored the way that I have approached the Bible thus far — basically, to help me stop pretending that any of us can approach the Bible objectively, so we have to understand our subjectivity and embrace it in a healthy way

* helped me to understand the humanness of the Bible and the human process by which the Bible came to be. The books of the Bible didn’t suddenly drop out of the sky on tablets of stone. The writings are divinely inspired (God breathed) but God used people and cultures to create them in a process that was bumpy, quirky, and not too different from the way any other body of human literature takes shape. Understanding that does not denigrate the Scripture or diminish our respect for it as God’s word, but rather, tells us a great deal about who God is and how he interacts with human beings. And it helps us spproach the text on its own terms, not forcing it to be something that it is not lest we be accused of becoming liberal and going soft on core doctrines (e.g. strict views of inerrancy) which, truth be told, were never considered to be core doctrines by most Christians in most places and periods of history.

Two great books for a general audience that are easy to read and hone in on these two aspects of the Bible are Blue Parakeet (Scot McKnight) and Genesis for Normal People (Jared Byas and Peter Enns). Either of those books could be read by a fellowship and discussed in fellowship meetings.

On the exegetical side, I have grown to appreciate the “for everyone” series of commentaries by NT Wright. He is a first-rate scholar who understands church life and the role of a pastor, and he writes in a charming, intelligent, witty and non-technical style. I love his “Paul for Everyone” series on Romans and Corinthians. He keeps the focus squarely on Christ. And he helps us to read the epistles, not in the context of Martuin Luther and the 16th century Reformers, but in the context of the early church for which they were written.

Another reference book that I haven’t gotten yet but want to read is The Bible Story Handbook by John and Kim Walton. It was intended to be a reference guide for Sunday School teachers, giving them very specific tips on how to handle all the popular Bible stories: Cain and Abel, the Flood, David and Goliath, Daniel in the Lion’s Den, Jonah, … Sunday school teachers — and ubf messengers — tend to focus on the characters in those stories, using them as positive or negative role models. The Waltons contend that, instead of focusing on the qualities of the Bible characters, we should be looking for God’s revelation of himself. Many pastors (not just Sunday school teachers) have found it to be a helpful resource.

Since 2008 when West Loop began, this is a short list of what we have done, which I trust has helped us to transform our image to being more gracious and Christ-centered:

* Preach 6 sermons from Tim Keller’s Prodigal God after listening to them (which are free online) and studying and discussing together. Some of us read the book, Prodigal God and studied his study guide weekly based on his book for 2 months.

* Preached 6 sermons from Tim Keller’s Counterfeit Gods after studying the book together. I wrote on this: http://www.ubfriends.org/2011/02/07/counterfeit-gods-and-the-bible/

* In early 2013, I preached through John’s Upper Room dialogues by referencing DA Carson’s highly recommended John’s Gospel commentary: http://westloop-church.org/index.php/messages/new-testament/29-johns-gospel-messages

* In 2012, I studied and preached through Genesis over again by studying books written by several reputed Genesis/OT scholars and seminarians: http://westloop-church.org/index.php/messages/old-testament/15-genesis

* Presently, I’m reading Tim Keller’s “Judges For You,” which is short and easy to read. His “Galatians For You” is also excellent.

* Don Carson’s book (and video series) on the overview of the Bible is a little heavier but very good: “The God Who Is Near.” In 14 chapters/lectures, he covers the entire Bible.

* I’ve read books on biblical theology by Graeme Goldsworthy, Sidney Greidanus, Dennis Johnson, (which are on the bookshelf in the Bible house), which all exegete the bible text to point to Christ, rather than to simply follow or obey good moral and ethical examples, and avoiding bad ones.

You didn’t answer that. But I just found the answer what concerns IK in his letter to the reformers. I had totally forgotten about that.

Clarly, IK was one of those who condoned the inaccountability of Samuel Lee and supported him, using that very argument “don’t touch the Lord’s anointed”, so now I’m not amazed to see you argumenting in similar ways. It seems he was successfully in feeding you his own Confucianistic ideology. IK even justified the fact that UBF did not have proper accounting (even though it handled millions of dollars!) saying that we should just trust the servant of God. Let me ask you: How trustworthy is a man who faked photographs and sent a missionary to an abortion clinic and had allegations of financial misconduct already in 1976? And even if the man would be an angel, shouldn’t there still be ledger books if you deal with millions of dollars? Sorry to say, Terry, I know you will be upset to hear it, but it is the truth: IK and people of his ilk caused the reform movement to fail, caused UBF to be considered a cult (and rightfully so), and caused UBF to get into the situation that it is now in. Even if IK himself was nice and meak, like SB, he was a facilitator of abuse just like her, an inhibitor of justice, somone who stabbed his fellow members who reported about injustice in the back on grounds of feeling loyal to one man SL. He knew about the issues, since the reformers wrote him and sent him all the information. But he dismissed everything prior to even reading it (see his words in his response) on the base that SL was God’s servant and could not be challenged. This mentality is the root cause of all the problems, and you are still upholding it by criticizing us of speaking about the wrongdoings of SL.

I also remembered that later, IK even became co-director of UBF USA for some time together with MY who was the one who brought the missionary to an aboriton clinic by order of SL. So Isaac became accomplice of evildoers. MY seemed to have repented and left UBF, but what about IK?

Sorry, my image of IK as a nice man severly changed after finding/remembering his role in the reform movement. Even if he bought you a Lamborghini I would still be disgusted by his answer to the reformers.

Brian, I had the same sentiments when I read this. In our part of UBF, having a pet, even a dog that needs much time and care, was a sign of being family-centered and not fully focused on campus mission. One young American girl who really was mad about dogs and was married off to one of our shepherds has been refused to have a dog (one of the reasons she left UBF and in turn divorced by her husband). All our other members were so hardcore that they would not have even dreamt of having a pet dog. You just didn’t have the time to care for a pet dog, if you were a UBF shepherd. That’s also what upset me about John Armstrong when he defended UBF some years ago. The picture on his blog showed him with his pet dog. I really got upset when I thought how he could approve (all of) UBF, without understanding how life in our part UBF really looked like, so different from his happy life with his dog.

9. Actually, there is a loyalty that is compatible with grace. It’s the loyalty that we give freely, without thinking whether the one we give it to has earned it from us. It’s the loyalty–not “shepherding”, not handouts–that we give to the suffering, wounded, abused and bitter. The best example of this grace-ful loyalty, in my mind, would be Ruth’s loyalty to Naomi. After my UBF experience, this is the only kind of loyalty I’d want to see and hear about in my chosen Christian community, a community that is supposed to be comprised of brothers and sisters, not kings, generals and soldiers.

10. In American politics, you’ll sometimes hear this being said: “Dissent is the highest form of patriotism.” There’s some truth in that. Loyalty can take different forms, and dissent can be one of those forms.

When we enter UBF for the first time there are definately the ‘loyalists’. Now, what I mean by this is simply:
“I went through X,Y,Z training and therefore it is the standard and unchanging. It is only fair this way for everyone.”

I am not saying this is the logic of the loyalists, but we know social environments well enough to see through the disguise of senior people in an institution be it work, school or church or whatever. There is a distinction between a senior who approves and a senior who disapproves. There may also be common ground between the one who disapproves and the one who has left.

The one who disapproves and the one who has already left does not mind if the pain that they suffered and the actions they took to change the system in some way benefits the new comers or next generation. But the long term unchanging seniors generally want everyone to have the same experiences as they did.

I am indeed oversimplifying this, but in essense it is not too difficult to explain – of course it comes from our OSN.

Here is a link (unfortunately in Russian) watch 1:30 – 2:30 Detroit sightseeing.
http://otopgear.com/top-gear-3-sezon-1-seriya/

My wife reminds me daily that there is a big difference between British and American :) I love watching Top Gear, and also Dr. Who.

And yes, that is what Detroit looks like. I drive some of those streets everyday to work. But downtown Detroit is being rebuilt:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdQ-SFXWmCQ

I am glad to be part of this rebuilding through my workplace.

There are many fine examples of Christ-centered preaching out there. And various ways to do it. For example, Tim Keller likes to allegorize and find hints of Jesus in a passage. Some passages (say, Gen 22) really cry out for the preacher to do that. For some other passages, that feels less natural to me.

I suggest that you create occasions for your fellowship to set aside inductive Bible study to openly discuss the larger issues of how to approach the Bible. The problem is that people spend so much time trying to study the Bible that they don’t leave any time to step back and think about how to do it. They examine the minute details of every brick but never take the time to assemble the building. If you don’t talk about these things as a fellowship, then even if you are able to deliver good Christ-centered sermons, people won’t understand why you are doing so, and they might reject the approach simply because it sounds unfamiliar. Take some time to read a book together, or a chapter or two of a book, about approaching Scripture in that way and then discuss it together. Or watch some video sermons or lectures and discuss them together. That way, it can benefit everyone in the fellowship and give them a new framework for how to approach Scripture.

“While taking my dog Kuma for a walk in the evening with my wife…”

I’m glad to hear this BUT if I and my friends had done that on a regular basis we would have been rebuked or given some training for being a “family-centered, weak Christian”. A huge fight would have ensued. We would have had to rebelliously do this at the risk of pissing off the director.

Proof? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gh5xu35bAxA

Other proof? Me writing “I must know as a Germany”

I’m sure that they are multiple ways to go about this. Since UBF loves Bible verses, how about these?:

* Ac 20:24 – Paul had a singular goal to testify to the gospel/good news of the grace of God. Shouldn’t our sermons and Bible study highlight grace and the gospel? Rather than law and imperatives??

* 1 Cor 1:23 – Paul preached Christ crucified, not law or mission or commands.

* 1 Cor 2:2 – Paul resolved to know nothing but Christ and him crucified.

* 1 Cor 15:3-4 – What Paul regards as of first importance is the gospel, not mission, law, imperatives and commands.

There are countless other verses that basically say that the primary message of the Bible is Grace, not Law.

You were “not part of it” because you did not care. Maybe it was not obvious or provable to everyone that the allegations brought forward by UBF reformers were true, but what was obvious was how the UBF leadership dealt with them, namely by not even investigating, by not listening, and not discussing these things, but instead attacking the character and motivation of the reformers and calling everything lies and slander. When I started to care and read about these things, it became clear very quickly which things to acknowledge and which not. For instance, when I read the report of Rebecca Kim, I was pretty sure that what she wrote was the truth. Like the fact that UBFers broke into her home. And now Brian has confirmed it was true. You should give those who report about abuse always give the benefit of doubt, and at least investigate the issues.

Much of the evil in this world happens because people have this attitude “I don’t care”, “as long as in my part of the world everything is ok, I’m fine” or “I’m not part of it” or “I cannot know whether it’s true anyway” or “I just blindly trust my leaders, they know better anyway”. As a Germany I know what I’m talking about.

Honestly, I’m thankful to all of the messengers who struggle every week to prepare sermons and I truly respect them as fellow brothers in Christ as well as admire their character. But we have to do something about the hermeneutical lens (and more fundamentally the exegetical one) which determines the quality of the sermons; the more I learn about what the gospel has to offer, I just don’t understand why this problem exists. Ben and Joe, are there any suggestions of how I could go about presenting a view such as this in sermon prep? I’m not even an assistant pastor in my chapter; what can I possibly do?

My point is that you came here, dismissing all our criticism of UBF with the simple argument that Isaac bought you a car. Yes, it was a nice deed (I repeat, it was nice, no sarcasm!) but it has nothing to do with the problems we are discussing here. And compared to the offerings that most ordinary members in UBF like me gave to UBF (which were also used for the livelihood of the leaders) it was peanuts (again, this is not to downplay the deed of Isaac, but to show the perspectives). The members in all the reform members that were expelled from UBF have certainly given millions of dollars as offering to UBF in the years they had served in UBF. But only those missionaries who remained in UBF can expect a pension (if they are lucky). A pension that is paid from offering money that once was collected from reform UBF members. Anyway, this is not about money, but about justice.

Remember, nobody here as ever criticized LA UBF. Our discussion is about the mainstream UBF. I gave you some examples of the kind of problems we are talking about that happened in the mainstream UBF while you were enjoying your life in LA UBF, but you completely don’t want to hear them and only feel personally offended. And you didn’t answer any of my questions or respond to any of the things I wrote in my comment. That’s sad.

It has been said that the tone of us UBF critics was unfriendly, or we were not “welcoming” enough (I think it was even you who said this), but how friendly and welcoming are the words to me in your comment really?

Yesterday, I found an interesting thing that happened to me. While taking my dog Kuma for a walk in the evening with my wife, a time I cherish and which is a time for me to give my undivided time and heart to her; well, while I was walking, I am usually fully engaged with her, but last night, she made a comment to me that struck me. She asked, “Are you alright? You seem distant.”. When she said it I felt extremely bad, because it was true. My mind was elsewhere, it was thinking about the posts here and my response to some and the good pints made by some. And I realized that I, because of my own inability to compartmentalize multiple tasks well, I had allowed this site to consume more of me than I should allow it to.

So I will continue the dialogue and participating, but only as much as I can “handle”, ie, am mature enough to handle without it affecting other areas of my life.

Have a great day everyone! :-)

I must apologize to you. Those last two words, “Grow up”, bothered me the whole time I walked my dog, this morning. They were very wrong of me to have written. I must shamefully confess, and ironically so, that it is I who needs to grow up and not be so easily offended by others and not you.

I was very angry that you dismissed what a friend, whom i even consider a father, did for me out of love, so easily. I take it very seriously, what he did for me so very long ago and I will NEVER forget it, and I don’t like when others dismiss it so easily.

But that does not excuse me for telling you to “Grow up”. It was wrong and I am genuinely sorry. Please forgive me.

I would like to latch onto a word you used while addressing me earlier. “Brag”. I did say, when I shared my sons letter to me, that I was “bragging”, but I would like you to clearly understand what my “bragging” entailed and what it did not entail. I will let you know that, my “bragging” will always be what others have to say about me and not what I say about myself. I was very glad and thankful of what Joshua had to say about me here in one of his posts. I will “brag” about that. But deep down I really know that I am the greatest sinner I know. And I really, truly believe that, because I know me. And my sin revealed itself again in my great pride once again in my final two words to you in my earlier post.

I will also share with you that I try to point out only my sin and not others, with varying degrees of success. I also try to find others great points and speak of them, again with varying degrees of success.

To Vitaly,

I find it very interesting that you use my personal shortcoming as an indictment against the whole of UBF. Must they bear my sin? Am I not enough to bear my own shortcoming and sin?

My wife and I have four kids. If one of my kids are traumatized, like it or not, the other five of us in our family, plus in-laws, other family members, and close friends are going to be involved, like it or not. Imagine if after my son expresses some trauma, I say, “No one else needs to be involved in this, because I was not the one traumatized. Also, no one else in the family needs to be involved because they were not traumatized. You should solve your problem on your own.” I wonder how this would go down for my traumatized son.

Brian has been in UBF for 24 years, which is the age of my youngest son. If he is experiencing some or any angst or trauma from UBF, all of his “spiritual” family should be invested in it and concerned about it, should we not?

http://otopgear.com/top-gear-3-sezon-1-seriya/

At the same time when RW and JR were with us in a bus I couldn’t help laughing when just looked at them. I am laughing even now as I am writing about them. We have a funny slang word in Russian “лох” which describes how they looked like for Russians. I don’t say they were such but they looked like that. Nobody wears e.g. caps in Russia the way they did. I respected them but the cultures are different, really.

Still if you live in Detroit I suppose you would look much better for Russians )) btw I liked how Top Gear presented Detroit in one of their shows. I’ll try to find a link.

I remember how I tried to do my best at a CIS conference and translated from Russian into English. I saw that when I was speaking all the Americans were listening with a very attentive and serious look but from time to time they laughed and couldn’t help laughing even on the stage. I suppose my pronunciation and what else made them laugh. Later some of them saw me in a building and asked, “You did the translation, right?” and then they laughed. ))) They couldn’t stop. Then they stopped and said, “You did well! We should speak true English the way you do, seriously”. I understand them. Once I listened to a radio interview where two people: an English and an American were talking in Russian. They did well, very well, professionally but they made many Russians laugh.

The director laughed to my face when I spoke about Ben and Joe. It seems that it is very difficult to understand for him and the like why the GD and other seniors didn’t expell them from ubf at once. It is the one and only change that has taken place in ubf: Ben and Joe are not expelled the way 2001 reformers were. (I am sure it is the only ever possible change in ubf)

If the fruit of the tree is regular LIE then what kind of tree is that? If Satan is the father of lie then what would his children say: lie or honest truth?

The right variant is Мне нравятся слоны (plural) or Мне нравится слон (singular)

Yes, Russian is very difficult, I know that. I heard that Mark Twain said that to learn English it’ll take 30 days, to learn French – 30 weeks, but 30 years wouldn’t be enough to learn German. He studied German and said that he buried 3 teachers while doing that. Russian is more difficult than German. Thanks to God there are many difficult languages in the world (e.g. Chinese) so I can understand those who study Russian. Thank God He gave the gift to the disciples to share the gospel in the beginning of Acts. But also though English seemed to someone as an easy to learn language I can’t hope to speak it properly this side of heaven. I can’t learn and adapt myself to another culture either. It would be nice if ubf missionaries understand it as well and follow Paul’s example of doing mission. It would be nice if they free the gospel message they preach of the ubf heritage (heresy).

The sentence I wrote in Russian can be understood only by Russians (and by those who have Russian speaking wives, Chris hopefully). It is a quote from a very famous Russian “басня” (a short wise poem/parable) by Krylov. The басня says that a small dog might seem great and powerful if it barks at an elephant. But the truth is the dog is small and powerless and like nothing before the elephant. Terry’s words reminded me of the басня. I wouldn’t say “grow up” to Chris or to Joe, Ben and you, Brian. But there are some very spiritual and wise people in the world (and in ubf there is a consentration of them) who know why when how and who should grow up. Such advices of some help (me) understand how deep ubf problems are. I become more and more grateful to God who saved me from ubf and ubf’s messages and language.

The direct translation of the sentence would be “Oh, Mos’ka (the small dog’s name) it is evident that it is powerful for it is barking at the elephant!” :)

Open chest surgery is not needed when putting on a coat.

I just want to meet with ubf people and talk but they seem to treat such a meeting as open chest surgery.

I’m at a loss for any kind of vision these days. But I suspect it might not be as difficult as we imagine.

What we need is not a problem-solving strategy, but a vision of what UBFriends can be, and the willingness to try creative initiatives to get us there. And UBF needs the same.